The article "Honest Householders, Not Pretend Brahmacaris" addresses the problem of pretension in Iskcon. Unfortunately, the author ends the article with following statement - "It is true that scriptures recommend avoiding household life if possible,......."

Surprisingly the above statement is main cause of the problem described in the article. In scriptures written by Veda Vyas, you won't find support of above statement. Bhagavad Gita describes Krishna's teachings. There is no sloka which supports above statement.

If above statement is important, then it would have been emphasized in many places. The speaker of Gita (Krishna) is householder. The receiver of Gita Arjuna is householder. He had multiple wives.

Actually, most sages had wives. Even great sages like Veda Vyas, Vasistha, Atri, Bharadvaj etc were married. Anonymous author understands the problem in Iskcon but still, cannot question the incorrect statement that scriptures recommend avoiding household life if possible.



To Godbrothers and Godsisters of the First Generation
by Karuna Mayee dasi
Posted August 1, 2010

Geez! Here I am -- yes, it's me -- Karuna -- feeling like I just gotta talk to you all about something that keeps buzzing in my bewildered old brain. (Pardon the casual English -- I get told all the time I'm too intellectual). But I've just got to speak up. Are you jivin' me about this 'children's karma'? Because if you're serious, I'm dumbfounded. I always thought that parents, educators and yeah, even government, were supposed to protect, guide and nurture the little folks. Beating, raping, embarrassing, demeaning, torturing them was bad -- really bad. That's why being a mommy seemed quite a big challenge. You had to get it right or you were the screwup.

But you all seem to have decided it goes the other way round -- it's on them, not us. Say what?! it's their karma, not ours? Are you telling me that all that falling down the wall, wanting to tear my face off, was just bull? And I could've just put all on Dasa, shrugged my shoulders and said, "Well, it was just your karma."? I'm amazed! Such an easy out, and it never occurred to me!

Well, somehow it still doesn't. I guess it's because I saw all the signs, looking back. They'd always been there. As the old saying goes, 'something was rotten in Denmark'. I just couldn't or wouldn't let myself see it. No -- I saw it, I just turned my back on it. Because what was I going to do -- send him to Karmi school? New Vrindaban was the last thing I had. I'd already pulled him out of two other lost-cause ashrams. And Sri Galim was such a considerate young bramachari... Never mind Dasa's endless pleas. It was just 'his creative mind', his love of 'story-telling', the twang of 'separation'. I had to keep strong, keep the faith -- ad infinitum. Schmoozed by a predator -- that was me.

Karma... my karma. What can you say about a mommy who doubts her little boy and believes the predator who's assaulting him and all his little pals? Nothing good! But wait! It doesn't end there. I see in memory, every day, witnesses throughout the movement -- whole gangs of grown-ups turning their heads and closing their eyes. I see the Governing Board Commission taking no steps to assure the proper treatment of ISKCON's Second Generation. I see parents, now saying, 'well, I never sent my children'. What does that mean? Weren't they all our children? They were the future of Sri Caitanya's Sankirtan movement -- weren't they? You know that saying; "The future is in our hands"? All I see in our hands is karma. When we say it's theirs, we're like Pontius Pilate turning from the raging crowd and washing his hands in the convenient bowl behind him.

But it just won't do! It didn't work for him and it won't work for us! Wake up, brothers and sisters! it's our karma. Nobody's going anywhere till we figure that out and own it! And what do we say to Prabhupada -- you know, the one who so kindly took our karma?! How do we square this 'children's karma' thing with him? I'm no authority, but something tells me he's not too pleased. Just a thought to ponder on.

So that's all for today, then. I know, my 'creds' as teacher look a bit dismal. But, think on it -- I have a weird kind of advantage. I was brutally forced out of my cozy denial in one terrible moment when my boy's psyche finally splintered into a trillion pieces all over our linoleum floor one afternoon nine years before he died. I woke up because I got a bucket of ice water tossed in my face. I had to look inward -- it happened too fast for me to put up a shield. In that awful moment, I knew it was on me. And I knew it was on all of us, the First Generation. So I can tell you, unequivocally, that we're the ones holding the bag, not Krsna's children.

I don't want you ever to go through what I've been through to learn whose shoulders the old Gurukula system falls on. Please trust me on this. You have to get it in this life, or you'll have to get it later. There's just no escaping karma. And I don't want you to have to know what it was like for the children of Gurukula -- or what it's like to be the mommy of a child who could only find relief at the end of a rope or the barrel of a gun.

Thank you for listening to me. Please believe me. It's all I can give -- it's all the Second Generation can give you. It's a gift, not a reproach. Accepting karma can be a hard row to hoe, but the moment you take the first step, the burden feels lighter. It's the beginning of knowledge, the beginning of wisdom.



Honest Householders, Not Pretend Brahmacaris
by Name withheld by request
Posted June 7, 2010

A while back, many children (now adults) who grew up with silenced abuse in the gurukulas, spoke out publicly, sharing their previously untold stories of abuse and mistreatment which happened in the name of spirituality. Sharing such stories is important, because it is healing for those who were silenced, and because it educates others to help prevent such horror stories from occurring again. When people are silenced, they internalize the pain, and blame themselves for what happened, especially when the abusers continue to hold positions of leadership within the movement, gaining fame and glory despite what they did. When people speak out, the pain has a way of being released, and the healing process can begin.

There is another group of people within ISKCON who have been silenced, and I think it is time to create a forum for women to speak out and share their stories, to heal and become empowered, and to educate others to make changes within the structure of ISKCON to prevent mistreatment of women from continuing to happen. I have been through a semi-traumatic experience myself, and although painful, I feel it is a gift in that if I speak out, perhaps others will too, and if changes are made, future generations of women can have a healthier more wholesome experience in Krishna consciousness.

I believe that a big problem is the way in which the philosophy is taught to men, and the way in which women are portrayed. Men are taught to be brahmacari, which although great for young male students, for most will not be a lifelong, realistic choice. Because of the tremendous guilt and pressure placed on some men to remain brahmacari, some will remain externally in saffron cloth, while sneaking around and sleeping with women in private, without taking responsibility for a woman as a lawfully wedded wife to be protected, maintained and cared for. Alternatively, they may maintain their vows but feel internally repressed. This produces pain and confusion for women who are left unprotected, and for the men — basically, an unhealthy situation for all parties involved. We cannot talk openly about it because there is so much pressure to follow the four principles that people do not want to share what is happening, for fear of admitting our shortcomings.

If men were taught from the start instead to train to become responsible future grhastas — educated, responsible and with the utmost respect for spirit souls in women's bodies — perhaps we could create a more honest and real spiritual society with softer hearts. Artificial austerities harden the heart, and for most of us, lifelong brahmacari/brahmacarini status would be artificial. Instead of training new bhaktas that brahmacarya is the goal and highest standard, it may be more realistic to teach them that being a brahmacari is a choice, never forced, and is for most a temporary stage of life. Those who know they will want to marry in the future, must prepare by becoming educated so that they can hold decent jobs to maintain their families. This is practical and part of varnashrama dharma. If we do not promote this in our temples, we create a one-sided view of spirituality that will not be realistic for most people to maintain for the long run. Also, women are taught that chastity to the husband is their main duty, but if the husbands are not acting responsibly, then the women are left alone. Our true nature will come out eventually, and I see so many people, myself included, struggling at a too-late stage in life to return to school and get ourselves materially together once we can no longer repress our natural-born dharma.

I have befriended and spoken to men who were trained as brahmacaris, and they have very openly shared with me the inner guilt and confusion they experienced from trying to repress their nature and desire to associate with women, in order to uphold an external portrait of themselves as "good" devotees. Some admitted to sleeping with women in secret. I know when I was in Mayapur, two saffron-clad brahmacaris knocked on my room door at night to approach me for physical relations. I suppose they thought that American women were easy targets, but luckily, they took no for an answer. Still, it was shocking.

Besides that, I have experienced relationships with men who on one side want to have a relationship but on the other side cannot allow themselves to get fully involved in one because they want to maintain what they believe to be the highest standard and think that to be with a woman is a falldown. Due to sex desire they want physical contact with women, but due to pressures in the mind from the way they were taught, they do not want to marry, so are left living in two worlds — secret relations in one place and an external show of brahmacarya in another place. Then the relationships with the women become so focused on that which is forbidden — sex and lust — instead of being one based on respect and lifelong commitment.

Of course, this is not the case for all men. Of course, there are healthy relationships within ISKCON. However, I am just stating a pattern of behavior I have observed and experienced repeatedly in some men, mostly those who were taught that brahmacarya is the highest and best, and mainly in those men who were given a lot of pressure to remain brahmacaris beyond the time that they wanted to.

I know of a couple of men who keep their relationships secret, and one openly admitted to me that it is because he wants to maintain a certain image of himself in front of others. Yet behind closed doors he freely has illicit relations with women, and then leaves them alone to feel hurt and confused. If men like this were taught and pressured within ISKCON the other way around — pressured to be married, pressured to take full responsibility for one legally wedded wife, then such men might start to reanalyze their behavior rather than being applauded for their carefree single lifestyle, which harms the women in our society. The pressure for men to be lifelong brahmacaris (with some rare exceptions) produces dishonesty, whereas pressure for men to marry would produce a more Vedic society of varnashrama dharma where women are protected and men are responsible, and where we can live the scriptures, not just preach them. In an ideal spiritual society, men who treat women in such a disrespectful way (enjoying them without taking responsibility for them) would be looked down upon and encouraged to reform their behavior, but in our current society they easily get away with it and are applauded for being externally single.

I babysit a lot and always feel both impressed and embarrassed when I enter the loving, responsible, honest homes of the families I work for. They may be materialistic in the eyes of some, but to me they are following the Bhagavad-gita by doing their dharma responsibly, caring and protecting the women and children. Some of these families are Jewish or Christian, and in some of these families I feel and see the love of God by the way they warmly treat each other. Seeing such real-life relationships inspires me more spiritually than does the repeated hearing of philosophy without seeing enough living examples of the philosophy that is being taught. I feel embarrassed because I wonder why we, the people who are supposedly with the best philosophy and the chosen people going back to Godhead, live in a semi-dysfunctional society when it comes to interpersonal relations. Of course there are exceptions, and each temple community may have a different mood. But I have witnessed this type of preaching to men, and have witnessed the practical effect it has.

Temple leaders need brahmacaris to get the temple work done. But the spiritual needs of each individual must be met and cared for to produce a long-term, functional movement that will spread far and wide.

I look forward to hearing from other women on their experiences as women in ISKCON, and what healthy changes are needed in order to help both the men and women. I don't really blame the men who hurt women in this way, but rather the overall preaching that is going on, pressuring the men to stay brahmacaris and scaring them about household life. It is true that scriptures recommend avoiding household life if possible, but what is worse: trying to avoid it and repeatedly falling down with different women, or accepting it and living it in a responsible and dharmic way for gradual purification? I would like to hear other women's thoughts and experiences, and hopefully we can unite to produce positive change where it is needed. Hare Krishna.

Editor’s Note: Chakra welcomes more discussion on this topic. Naturally, for maximum impact and credibility we prefer that contributors allow us to associate their names with replies. However, in keeping with longstanding Chakra policy, we will, under certain conditions, post articles anonymously, provided that in every case the author reveals his or her name and contact information to the Chakra editorial board

In his article entitled, "Mini Skirts... Skirting the Issue", Kapila, one of the lead organizers of the Kuli Mela Association, eloquently and succinctly elaborates on the moods, mindsets and intentions behind the events. He also offers more details about the Gala Evening at the Ford Theater from KulimeLA 2009. Recently we released the Ford Theater video on the Internet and it seems an elaboration is needed to explain some of the deeper contexts of the Melas, and the 2009 Gala Evening in particular. There's a lot of history contained in that video and it might be a challenge for some to understand and appreciate it without more information.

From the related articles by Madhavananda, Radhika and Maheshwar prabhus, I'm glad to see that we can view these things with a little light-hearted humor and detachment. Thanks for that. It is much appreciated.

As Kulis, we do not think we are pure devotees. Far from it. We openly say we are not. We are further from the center than some, and closer than others. Most of us are members of the wider ISKCON Community and not full-time, initiated, priestly temple devotees. At the same time, that doesn't mean we should be treated as outcasts because of it.

For the record, the Kuli Mela organizers do not promote the breaking of the regulative principles, or any other progressive guidelines set forth by Srila Prabhupada. In fact, we hold them in the highest regard, follow them as best we are able, and encourage participants at our events to do the same. Our hope is to inspire devotees, the youth in particular, to find strength in being open and honest about where they are at and to make progress from there. It is our firm belief that in such an atmosphere, real advancement can be made.

One important mission for Kuli Mela Association is to bring people together and offer them a place to share their talents with one another, regardless of the spiritual practices they may or may not be following. As a result, sometimes the offerings reach new heights and sometimes the offerings are a bit questionable. Most fall somewhere in between. The main thing is we allow people the space to express sincere offerings to their peers, the gathered devotees, their guru, Srila Prabhupada, right on up the line to Krishna. The person offering this year's "questionable" offering could very easily become the next year's "advanced devotee." Over the 21 years that I've been volunteering I've seen that happen enough times to keep me inspired in this service.

Sometimes a little controversy can be a good thing. It increases the focus on a particular issue, even if we don't want it to. Seen in the right light, it can be opportunity for us to create a space for meaningful dialog. It allows us to continue to build a vibrant community based on love and trust, with all the dynamic and diverse layers that entails. Of course, at the center is finding ways for us to connect on deeper, more spiritual, levels, which ultimately lead us back to the Source…

Yours in (imperfect) service,
Chaitanya Mangala dasa

For those who prefer a quote from Srila Prabhupada to qualify our statements, please read the following excerpt from a Room Conversation with Srila Prabhupada in Hawaii - May 3rd, 1976:

Siddha-svarupa: "There are a lot of devotees here who follow the principles but cannot completely... (break) ...shaved up, and they still wear karmi clothes pretty much, but they're clean, they're devotees, and in this way they're attracting many of the local people, because they're able to relate to them.

Prabhupada: So that...

Siddha-svarupa: They're not lowering your standard.

Prabhupada: No, naturally, but when they are initiated they must shave. They must keep to the standard. If one becomes initiated and he still keeps the hippie form, that does not look nice. Do you think that is all right? No, that is not good. So long they are coming as outsider, joining kirtana, they may have their own dress, it doesn't matter. They are coming to kirtana, that must be (indistinct). But when they are to be initiated, they must follow the rules and regulations given by the spiritual master.

Siddha-svarupa: So...

Prabhupada: Otherwise they should not be initiated. It is simple thing. Let them go on chanting, taking prasadam; we have no (indistinct). But when they are to be initiated, they must follow. This is the clear (indistinct). If you don't want to disturb them, let them come, chant, dance, take prasadam We have no objection. But don't recommend them for initiation unless he agrees to the rules and regulations given by the spiritual master. Where is the wrong? Where is the difficulty? You can talk with him like that.

Siddha-svarupa: I think they only feel that because...

Prabhupada: No feeling, if you..., when you are surrendering to the spiritual... Sisyas te 'ham sadhi mam prapannam. Find out this verse. Tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya.

Hari-sauri:

tad viddhi pranipatena
pariprasnena sevaya
upadeksyanti te jnanam
jnaninas tattva-darsinah

"Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Enquire from him submissively..."

Prabhupada: Mm? Where are they? Mm.

Hari-sauri: "Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Enquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth."

Prabhupada: You have to submit. You cannot remain independent. That is the first condition. Sisyas te 'ham,sisya. Sisya means voluntarily accepting the rules offered by the spiritual master. That is sisya: "Ah, yes, I agree to abide by your order." Then he becomes sisya. Otherwise where is the question... "I am thinking like this, I am thinking..." So long you are thinking otherwise, you don't try to become a sisya. You remain outside and you are welcome: chant, dance, take prasadam, and remain independent. There is no objection. But when you become sisya, then you cannot remain independent. These things convince him. Then you don't become sisya. Remain as friend, there is no harm. Just like so many people, they come. So if these things (indistinct). One thousand twenty, checks (indistinct). This way. What is the wrong there?"



Miniskirts... Skirting the Issue
by Kapila
Posted July 26, 2010

I appreciate the articles written by Madhavananda Prabhu and Radhika Prabhu in regards to the recommended attire of a brahminical devotee. It is always good to be reminded of the most correct form, and to recognize standards which apply to temple environments.

I would like, however, to clarify the position that I take when approaching both the kulimelas and the youth, as it will better inform these devotees and others why some things are the way they are.

It is pertinent to note first and foremost that although Kulis (youth born into the Hare Krsna movement), are members of the community, and often great devotees too, the majority are not initiated devotees.

So we see that there are initiated devotee youth, youth who are active members of the community, and others who are not active but still attend to their friends, and still others who are inimical.

The kulimela is actually a space where all such are invited to attend, and to come together and rejoice in friendship, family, community, and spirituality.

So for the kulimela event we set aside our particular conditions and standards and set a more comfortable space.

This space, of course, still has some rules we ask all attendees to respect, on temple property, such as no alcohol or drugs.

Although a number of kulis do partake of such substances in the outside world, the vast majority, even amongst these, are happy to set aside these activities during the mela, and we have had no issues with drugs or alcohol at our events (ironically we did have one old Prabhupada disciple who was smoking weed in the woods and he was politely asked to stop.) If there are other issues, they have been minor and incomparable to the wonderful benefits that the kulimela's bring.

I would note that Radhika Prabhu has also mentioned the sunday feast, which again was set up to be the Sunday love feast, a place where the public are invited to join and come for the feast etc.

The fundamental issue here is that the majority of kulis have not made any vows or taken initiation, and are attending as members of the wider community. They therefore have no obligation to attend the lectures, to dress according to brahminical standards, or to do anything other than enjoy the feast and socialize, although almost all will be found in the kirtan, singing, dancing, and playing instruments, surely something wonderful and to be encouraged.

Their attitude can create a disturbance to some who evaluate them as initiated by default, which is not a fact or the process at all.

Of course, there are still certain expectations even of the wider public in the temple environment (such as not wearing shoes inside), and dressing to some degree of modesty, but it is hardly the same as the standards we would expect of initiated disciples, or temple pujaris.

So the question can be asked, what is the value of the Sunday feast being open to all, and of the Kulimelas being a more open environment?

The benefit is that we can reawaken the taste of bhakti in such circumstances.

So we don't say that only people who follow the four regulative principles can attend a Sunday feast. Why not? Because then how can we preach. Yet we would say they cannot eat meat on the property, which is appropriate. As an example of how people and place can change our approach, when we go out on Rathayatra, the space is even more open, because people can come and view the tents in their bikinis and even be eating meat while talking to a devotee.

My point is that standards should be known, understood, and explained, but that they are personal and place dependent.

Let me give those who have not attended and experienced the magic of the Kulimelas a few important things which happen at the melas.

Firstly, nearly everyone participates in service. At the Radhadesh mela we had more than 75% of all delegates participate in service, from cooking, to cleaning, to presenting, etc. How do I know? We gave a gift t-shirt to everyone we could identify who had done some service and that was the figure, it was probably higher.

This is service done with genuine happiness and love, and the smiles on the face of the servers was very real. When service becomes a burden and expectation, this smile disappears, and can lead to burnout. The melas are an attempt to overcome some of the damage done by burnout from the past (not an issue with the new generation of youth, but the older generation 25+ certainly experienced such burnout), so we ask and make no demands.

If you want to come, play sports, talk to friends, that's fine. And it works. I have had many experiences where youth who came just to play sports, and attended no seminars or lectures, were so inspired by the event that they organized lectures and seminars a year later! And these seminars were on preaching....

If we had put pressure on this young man not to play sports, if we had told them to wear a dhoti and proper kurta (most of these young men had no shirts on at given times), and if we had insisted on the morning program and lecture, they would not have attended, not been inspired, and we would not have their energy for the future.

Secondly, the most popular activity at a mela is not the entertainment, it's not the seminars, it's not even the prasadam, it's the Bhajan Kutir. The nama yajna for the mela's.

We place this at the center of the event, and it runs all day. It's so appreciated that the attendees won't leave even for prasadam and the evenings entertainment.

Thirdly, we schedule spiritually infused entertainment so that youth who will go out and enjoy night clubs and all that the material world has to offer, will always remember that the best time they ever had was dancing with their friends, without any drugs or alcohol, and with reminders of Krishna.

But that is not where it ends, we escalate the evenings dance, so that first there is a more neutral space, with dance music etc, but then we transition the next day to a rocking kirtan, where the mood, of course, only goes higher and becomes the most powerful and appreciated.

The power of a rocking kirtan is such that the taste can remain even after 20 years of material life. And so with our neutral space we entice kulis back to experience it.

But again, this is all by the process of invitation, by welcoming, by putting aside judgment, and by embracing our wider community.

I would add one final note for those who may not understand the Gala Evening at the Ford Theater. There were very specific reasons why we hosted such an event off the temple property. (We hosted a Rukmini and Krishna play on temple property). This was because the evening was one that was reaching out to the most abused and mistreated of our second generation, young men and women who would not feel comfortable or safe in any temple environment.

And inside of that space we had to widen the boundaries of our neutral space, where inside the temple we would narrow those same boundaries.

It is a reminder that we are not devotees "because" of our dress, but that we may dress in certain ways because we are a devotee. So to me it is an inspiration when George Harrison sings Hare Krsna, or when a model says she chants Hare Krsna to the Daily Mail newspaper in the UK, these are events which say, you never know where you will find a devotee, and in what guise or factor of life.

I won't go into a full analysis of all of these circumstances, except to say that I greatly appreciate seeing a devotee in full garb, because it creates contrast as well as comparison.

So when I organize events in the UK for professionals, we have many devotees in suits, interacting with bankers, lawyers, and the like, and they don't know if they are speaking to a devotee or a non devotee, they can appreciate Hare Krsna's are also professional. But I also invite the brahmacharis and temple president to attend in their professional garb, a dhoti, and this contrast and comparison in a neutral space is very effective.

I can state with absolute certainty that if we only had devotees in dhotis at the professional events I host, or if we established a traditional temple garb on all mela attendees, we would have very few people there. And those few people are well served by many other events.

So my argument is not against standards, and I respect and appreciate being reminded of them, I just wanted to perhaps explain a few things to those who might misunderstand what the value and purpose of the melas are.

One final point about what is probably the most disturbing "garb" issue from the evening at the Ford Theater, that is the dance in which the dancer rips off certain elements of her clothing.

This dance is supposed to be awkward and uncomfortable at that moment. It is a statement against hypocrisy as experienced in our youth, where we were judged by the "appropriateness" of our clothes, rather than the spirituality in our hearts, and where we were instructed not to dress like whores, while a number of youth were sexually abused, assaulted, and molested, or given away in marriage at the ages of 11 and 12.

These are issues that we can forget, but they are not forgotten by those who lived them and were there.

This dance addressed those issues, daring the viewer to treat the dancer as a sex object, while demanding at the same time that she dress appropriately. At least that is how I interpreted it. As a work of art, there are other experiences possible.

This resonance will not be understood by all, but I for one defend it, and appreciate it, in the context in which it was presented.

That same dancer organized all the young children (and a number of older youth), to dress up in fantastic garb to add to the glory of the parade for Lord Jagannath, she also gave up huge amounts of her time and energy to make the mela happen, and is a very dedicated participant in this spiritual path, raising her children wonderfully. How do I know this? She's my sister.

Sincerely,
your servant,
Kapila